Curse

pumpkin pie · Aug 23, 2008, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Hello,

Today, I've managed to gather my own HA group, and won, i wish I can say I won Hall, but , we won, not the hall but first 2 maps is as good as a randomly made up HA pug or rank 0 - rank 2 group get to. Yay to me.

So this is the thing that has been going on in my mind while HA-ing today, and I hope this will bring out the true heros in Guild Wars PvP to help the noobie heros and hopefully one day the the gap between ranks will be closer. (one can dream)

So this is what this thread is about. Since lower rank players cannot possibly get to play with higher rank players, maybe sometime in a guild group and as such you cannot get advise from them. So while you are playing, we cannot bug you and ask for advise. So, in the hope that you will give advise here when you are free.

This is what I notice today:

Some new players still does not know about the timer at the beginning of HA, some of them will run towards the end of the raise platform, I suspect is to look, because its new, its beautiful. However, NEVER NEVER RUN TOWARDS THE END OF THE PLATFORM (see picture for the line) when you enter the Hall of Heros.

Reason: it will trigger a timer which time your team's kill speed, if you trigger that timer, and your teammate aren't ready you will get less morale boost, 10% being the highest, 0 being the lowest. So the aim is 10%, therefore do not run into the Zaishen before everyone is ready, there is usually a countdown that goes 3 2 1 go.

There I've given my first advise, from a noobie to another noobie.

How to contribute in this? Hopefully, you will say what are the things noobie has done that is fatal to the team, state the reasons and how to avoid it in the future. any little tips help, there are so many tips and advise that we need, if you won't take us together in HA, help us here.

Thank you very much!

Squishy ftw · Aug 23, 2008, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Don't bunch up and spread the f out.

silavor · Aug 23, 2008, 10:02 AM // 10:02

If a monk calls a target (which shouldn't be done/neccessary in higher ranked groups, but hey pugs will be pugs) GET OVER AND HELP! Just because your target is almost dead does NOT mean you will live if you waste time trying to kill your target and the monks die in the proccess.

Also, for any would-be monks out there, leave the reses at home. Use the space for something more worthwhile. For other characters, unless you have a specific reason to bring one of the two rit res skills, ONLY bring the resurrection signet. Anything else wastes time and energy, and if you waste either of those your team won't get far. Hard reses just aren't that neccessary for PUGs, since most PUG'ers don't know when/how to use them anyway.

Edwards · Aug 23, 2008, 10:05 AM // 10:05

For dealing with Zaishen:

Always kill the Elementalist first. Whenever I run randomway, there's at least one person who tries to overcall me and go for the monks. The elementalist should be killed first because he has Ward Against Harm and Ward Against Melee, both of which can seriously reduce your damage, and hurt your time.

For Melee Classes:

Attacking monks is good, but there are times when you shouldn't. If a healer has Guardian or Weapon of Warding on them, switch targets right away, because they'll start blocking you, hurting your damage output. The same idea holds true for Shield of Absorption. If you hit somebody who has SoA on them more than a couple of times, most of your damage starts to be negated. Also, if your target is standing in AoE, don't tank the damage to get a couple more hits unless you think you're about to get a kill. In any of these situations, it's much better to just switch to a different target for a little while and then switch back once you can maximize your damage on the healer again. Remember, even if you're not directly damaging them, you can attack a healer's energy bar by making them spread their heals and prots around a lot to mop up damage done to the other members of their party.

In General:

Rez as soon as somebody dies. This one's a no brainer. Even if you think somebody else is going to do it, they could get interrupted, or die themselves. If you lose an annihilation match without using your res sig, something is wrong.

TheodenKing · Aug 23, 2008, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Great idea for the forum! The pvp community needs to change their ways if they want to stop the dwindling numbers. My guess is that for the most part they still don't care.

Sun Fired Blank · Aug 23, 2008, 01:27 PM // 13:27

People tend to die in r0 to r6 groups because they're stupid, not because the monks failed. If you don't kite / pre-kite, if you don't use your shield set, if you stand in every pulse of AoE, if you position yourselves for scythes and AoE to inflict more damage than they're already likely to do, if your midline has no defensive capabilities, if you let key spirits remain up, if you let various monk-destroying shit be used on recharge, then you die.

That is hardly to say that monks are never at fault, more to say that your group can often avoid a quick return to Zaishen and help your monks by using their brains.

Some other very general advice for specific builds.

R-Spike: spread as much as you can to make spike targets obvious, try and use geometry if you can and they're dumb enough to let you, disable favorable winds, disable paragon / ritualist damage, use piercing shields, use Cry of Frustration on as many people as you can, try and kite projectiles as you can.
Heroway: Weapon of Warding, often on prot monk and esp. if they use Warmonger's Weapon. Snares on thumpers, kite around / through Ward Foes. Aura on recharge, often on heal monk. Guardian on recharge, not versus rigor. SoA on recharge versus rigor / barbs / dual trains. Disable Order of Apostasy.
IV Spike: use your shields, use SB after the N/A uses rend or gaze, you only have about .25 seconds if that presuming they don't suck. It helps if you can disrupt N/A, but often they use ridiculous amounts of prot and Spell Breaker on him.
Deathspike: use your shields, use SB after Deathly Swarm animation, don't stand close together, destroy golems and use corpse control.
Ritspike: 3-2-1, SB. Use Aura, don't stand close together.
Dervish or Sinderv Omegaspikes: SB is often enough, if they have some form of persistent enchantment removal, you have to either stop it (responsibility of midline) or time it (use SB after ench removal), Dark Apostasy is probably the most frustrating version to me. You should be prepared to RoF after SB.

Channeltanking:

My very general opinion is that your extra gains from excessively channeltanking can often be destroyed by extra damage you take and your positioning. Teams often destroy it on recharge anyways, and you're fairly dicked if you're overly reliant on it. I think you generally should only get +1 to +3 energy for casting under it, with the occasional +3 to +5 in certain situations. The rewards for Channeling, in my opinion, are on the maps where the potential energy gains can be just ridiculous, and the notion of positioning is completely defenestrated.

LifesRestorer · Aug 23, 2008, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by silavor

If a monk calls a target (which shouldn't be done/neccessary in higher ranked groups, but hey pugs will be pugs)

Wrong. Monks should be calling targets for themselves to place tabs on things such as frontline so it is easier to relocate the target after saving a spike. Calling a target places a tab next to your name on the party window. If you mouse click the tab, you will automatically be brought back to the target that that person called, no matter what is the current called 'T' target.

This makes it 100000x easier to catch spikes, especially those with only one frontline as you can go pure tunnell vision on the character that will be most likely dealing the most damage - The frontline (deep wound and big domage)

pumpkin pie · Aug 23, 2008, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Hey thanks!

I have some more questions, quite specific, regarding Hway team.

so it is, 1 on 8, 2 on 7 and 3 on 6, for the RaO (Rampage As One, build is on PvX if you need), because those are usually the monks. if they are not monks, it is necros if your facing another Hway team like yourself, so this is easy? right, you also do the same thing 1 on 8 et cetera, what if you found yourself facing an E/A eoe group? how does one make the most of the situation to win in a case where your group is a pug and unprepared for something other then what we are expecting?

shoogi · Aug 23, 2008, 03:27 PM // 15:27

pumpkin, one thing you never do as a melee class is to stay on the same target for the entire match and spam skills upon recharge (though this is what all the rao thumpers do). You DON'T pick your targets based on their member number. Why? Because the enemy can predict you very easily. If you are rao #1 and you attack monk #8 all the time, their prot monk knows to prot #8 and their weapon of warding keeps it on #8. What's the result? Your damage is reduced to nothing due to blocks, and when you do hit you meet shield of absorbtion, aura of stability, spirit bond, reversal of fortune...
Now, if you switch your targets then the monks have to prot multiple targets which is much more energy consuming, and your attacks are more effective since you attack non protted targets. When you see your target gets protted you change target, so you don't waste time on a target that has weapon of warding, guardian, etc. How do you know when your target gets protted? learn skill animations. Very useful. A big eye is a spirit bond, a blue circle is a guardian, a sword appearing on the target's health bar is a weapon of warding probably, and so on.
Another tip- don't play rao thumper. That won't make you a better player.

pumpkin pie · Aug 23, 2008, 03:51 PM // 15:51

okay, now i am confuse, when i first play rao thumper, i basically switch target like you say, but not the same reason, its bacause i saw other target i can bring down, and i did bring them down, however, team members get very angry, reason, i did not follow target. sooooo .... what do you do see. damn if you do damn if you dont ...

also, if all 3 rao are constantly on their target, and keeping all 3 monks busy, they should not have as much time to heal each other and the other team member as well? no?

warriorsmiley · Aug 23, 2008, 04:38 PM // 16:38

My big thing especially since I play prot monk is standing in AOE. Plus for the love of god as soon as a aoe spell hits move especially stationary ones like SH. Also kite kite kite. If you see a melee character about to hit you run around. This does 2 things makes the warrior useless and you protected yourself wasting little if any energy at all.

For would be monks. Learn how to conserve your energy there is no need to spot heal every little thing if you do that you'll run outta energy in no time.

Solas · Aug 23, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Just noticing where your party members are helps, like not running out of your healers circle etc. as there is often somone that runs right across the map...

Shayne Hawke · Aug 23, 2008, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Unless you are trying to perform a spike on a switched target or something, coordinate with your frontliners about which targets they will be attacking to ensure that there's not more than one per target. Lay down as much pressure on support and healer classes as possible, switching targets only if they throw up something to do lots of blocking or lots of healing when you're hitting them. Watch for how long they stay protected, and switch back as soon as possible.

Also, if you're a frontliner in a team with little hex removal, it's generally better to sit out of battle until hexes like Insidious Parasite, Spiteful Spirit, and Empathy are off of you. If you know that your team has good hex removal and those with it are aware enough to use them properly, you could stay in battle and rely on them to clean you up.

Yoshikuni Mahsu · Aug 23, 2008, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

Heroes Ascent

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

Guild Wars PvP

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
thank you for providing my daily provision of lulz

On topic.

Winning at HA.
1: Load up the most imbalanced 8v8 build one can find.
2: Find players with >60 IQ to play said builds, monkeys or laying a cat or heavy object on your skill and movement keys will work as well.
3: Hope not to get gang banged at halls
4: ???
5: PROFIT!

Lykan · Aug 24, 2008, 02:04 AM // 02:04

DO NOT listen when someone in the team tells you to wait on the stairs in UW.

Productivity · Aug 24, 2008, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by silavor

If a monk calls a target (which shouldn't be done/neccessary in higher ranked groups, but hey pugs will be pugs) GET OVER AND HELP! Just because your target is almost dead does NOT mean you will live if you waste time trying to kill your target and the monks die in the proccess.

Monks often call targets so that they get the box next to their name so they can easily lock into the mesmer targetting them etc. Good monks will do it when the rest of the team isn't spiking, but it doesn't necessarily mean anything other than that the monk is aware that they've got someone shooting for them.

Edwards · Aug 24, 2008, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Most people who lead hway groups don't know what they're doing. Worse, they believe that they're really good for being able to grind out a couple wins with an easy build. Switching targets is a good thing. Switching targets is how warriors get kills. For example, does it make more sense to switch targets score a kill on a foe with low health, and then switch back, or to ignore that enemy and keep whacking away through weapon of warding? It's extremely easy for a team to keep a weapon of warding on 8 and have 7 maintain guardian on himself to negate all of the pressure in a build.

Also, having two frontline on a target is not necessarily a bad thing. If the other team is slow in protting, or has wasted their prots elsewhere (as a result of good target swapping by your melee), then you can force a kill or a big heal like an infuse. As long as you don't have all of your offense sitting on a protted target(s), you're not wasting any of your damage.

Against EoE with sway, I'd reccomend that you keep both NRts back and have them cast PwK in advance. Let them do their wost, and drop the PwKs for party healing. As soon as the first bomb is done, wipe them up quickly, and you should win.

pumpkin pie · Aug 24, 2008, 09:23 AM // 09:23

all i can say is thanks for all the advise, it help a lot, and the most important thing is you've got to watch the the battle field. see what goes one and learn the skill animation, if you don't know the skill animation the easiest thing is when you hit the monk/target (speaking as a warrior) and you see "block" and "0" (big yellow words) move elsewhere hit some one else, then return to your target, back and forth when they block

kiting is good, save me a lot of time, FYI: not the running around stalling time kind of kiting. running out of aoe and energy degen wells and wards

more advise! thanks

Edwards · Aug 24, 2008, 10:00 AM // 10:00

On kiting:

When you see a melee character running towards you, particularly in a spike build with only one frontline, run away. This can really mess up the spike, and make it a lot easier to catch, because the deep wound will be coming a few seconds later than the rest of the damage. Of course, if it's a warrior with a speed boost, you have to be careful about not getting bull's'd. If you suspect that the warrior's going to Bull's Strike you, try to stop moving as he's about to hit you. If they're bad, they'll probably have it queued up.

Like Pumpkin said, it's all about battlefield awareness, and using it to help your team and hinder your opponents.

matti90 · Aug 24, 2008, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
thank you for providing my daily provision of lulz

On topic.

Winning at HA.
1: Load up the most imbalanced 8v8 build one can find.
2: Find players with >60 IQ to play said builds, monkeys or laying a cat or heavy object on your skill and movement keys will work as well.
3: Hope not to get gang banged at halls
4: ???
5: PROFIT!

Bad troll is bad.